Part way into this week’s Västerås Conversation, one of the Syrian members of the group told us how different this was to anything he knew from the country he has had to leave. Back home, no-one would think of getting together to have a conversation about what makes a good conversation. On the other hand, there were plenty of people having good conversations.
It reminded me of a line I heard from my friend Andrew Taggart, a philosopher and a man who has many good conversations. Philosophy, he says, starts at the point where something isn’t working. I may be misquoting, and Andrew is probably quoting someone older and deader than both of us, but the point stands: if we lived in a culture where the art of conversation was thriving, we probably wouldn’t be having a conversation like this.
This thought led into a metaphor that came up several times on Wednesday night, the metaphor of breathing: you don’t have to think about breathing, until you start to think about it. Conversation is almost as central to human life as breathing. Perhaps it is even older than words? (If you listen all the way to the end of the recording, you’ll see that we tried a spell of conversational silence…)
Breathing came up as well in the old sense of the word ‘conspiracy’, ‘breathing together’. It was Johan Redin, next week’s guest, who brought this word into the conversation, but it had already been whispering in my mind. Earlier in the day I had copied out two lines from one of my favourite pieces of writing, Ivan Illich’s ‘The Cultivation of Conspiracy’:
Learned and leisurely hospitality is the only antidote to the stance of deadly cleverness acquired in the professional pursuit of objectively secured knowledge. I remain certain that the quest for truth cannot thrive outside the nourishment of mutual trust flowering into a commitment to friendship.
In a small way, this is what we are trying to create a space for on a Wednesday evening. There was another text that came to visit us during the conversation, the text of a talk given the night before in Paris by John Thackara (who I’m looking forward to working with in this summer’s Future Perfect festival). ‘How We Meet is as Important as Why’, reads the title of John’s talk, and many of his thoughts were echoed among ours. ‘Conversation,’ he says, ‘more than any other form of human interaction, is the place where we learn.’
There are lots more themes we touched on, from the contrast between conversation and debate as spaces of thinking in public, to the difficulty northern Europeans have in starting conversations with strangers, even though we mostly enjoy them when they happen.
This conversation took place in English. The main reason for this* was the surprising number of people outside of Sweden who listened and responded to last week’s recording with Anthony McCann. We like the idea that the conversation taking place in a physical space on a particular evening is also surrounded by another conversation, drifting across the technosphere.
Join us next Wednesday, when I’ll be talking to the philosopher and Västerås resident Johan Redin about ‘The History of History’. More information in the Västerås Conversations Facebook group.
* Although it’s fair to say that, had we been in Swedish, I would have done rather less of the talking.